What does it really mean to live in the Peace Region?
That was something that Kevin Willeboordse was thinking about while doing his day job, working in the oil and gas industry. “A lot of people seem to have strong opinions about a lot of the topics around living is this area,” says Willeboordse. “But they don’t seem to have a lot of knowledge or understanding about any given subject themselves. I had these questions, too, and so I figured the best way for people to learn about these issue would be to start a podcast that people can listen to, whether they’re driving or going through daily routines, jogging, or exercising. The hope is that the listeners—and I— can learn a little bit about a region and get a better understanding about different topics.”
Willeboordse hopes that by talking to people who know more about these topics, it will help bridge the gap. “The podcast ranges from hunting to politics to maybe what type of whiskey people might prefer and how to taste test them.”
But mostly, he says he wants to go a little deeper into topics. “It was Industry that was the starting point of it. Oil and gas in particular has been demonized. And I wanted to bring a different perspective, from the inside of the oil and gas industry, looking at how it is produced and processed and brought to market. The process isn’t is bad, environmentally, as most people think. And then there’s hunting.
“A lot of people have such strong opinions about everything, but nobody is willing to talk about anything. Whether it be oil and gas, whether it be conservation, it seems like any subject that you touch on has the threat of being polarizing. This was the only way I felt I could bring perspective to all those different subjects and learn and grow myself with it all. I don’t know much about politics, but I have a strong opinion about it. So maybe, if I’m going to have such a strong opinion, I can bring on mayors—like I have—to understand their points of view.”
Recently, Willeboordse has been working in the Tumbler Ridge area, and has started to invite locals on to talk about life in Tumbler Ridge. “Tumbler Ridge is a perfect example of why I got into podcasting, because there’s a lot to Tumbler Ridge that isn’t all that well known. It’s a hidden gem. And it’s nice to be able to interview and talk to people that have a lot of knowledge about the area. Talking about not only the wilderness, but history, and now with the dinosaurs and Geopark, I think there’s a lot there that can be shared, and long form conversation is the best way to explore and understand a lot of those subjects.”
His podcast—Kevin Unscripted—is not for the faint of heart or short of attention. The average conversation he has is typically about three hours. In the past few months Charles Helm and Mayor Keith Bertrand have appeared on the show for long conversations about their specific areas of expertise.
Willeboordse jumped into creating a podcast with both feet after becoming a fan of podcasts, especially the Joe Rogan Experience. But Willeboordse has no background in audio production or reporting or anything that would seem to dovetail nicely into podcasting. “It was one of the sharpest learning curvesI’ve gone through in quite some time,” he says. “I got into listening to them over a few months, and then decided it probably would be something I’d want to do myself. After I’d made the decision to do it, I quite literally figured it out by watching YouTube videos. There were three things that I figured out how to do. One was to get the proper equipment. Second was to make a studio that would be awesome. A place where people would want to come and get into a long form conversation. And the third would be, I guess, learning the skill and the craft of interviewing and holding a meaningful, interesting conversation. The only way I knew how to do that would be to actually dive in your feet first and see how it played out. So far it’s going really well.”
He says the secret to his success is the fact that he is genuinely curious and interested about the people he talks to and what they have to say. “You need curiosity about whatever subject it might be, about the person that you’re talking with, and to be able to adjust your understanding to grasp their point of view. To hear what they’re saying and interact with them in a way where it’s going to allow the person you’re talking to, to talk about whatever in a way where they feel like they’re being heard and understood. When you do that properly, the conversation takes a life of its own on and you can just let it go naturally, without it being scripted. That’s why I came up with the name Kevin Unscripted: because I think the most authentic, natural, interesting form of conversation is to let it just take a life of its own. The trick is being able to allow that to happen without stepping on people and letting it go naturally without it being led in one form or another. That can be easier said than done.”
Indeed, he says, it is a skill mostly missing these days. “The art of communication and being able to hold a long form conversation is gone,” says Willeboordse. “And I think people have a surprisingly high appetite for being able to get immersed into long form conversations: being able to actually explain their point of view in a way that’s more than just snippets, or clickbait or short little conversations. There is a tremendous amount of value in being able to explain yourself in a way where every aspect is covered. And two hours plus is, honestly, I think, the best. After the first hour is when people actually feel comfortable and the tension drops, and you get into the real interesting part of the conversation. Then, after about three hours the restlessness sets in. But it really does take about an hour and a half to two hours for people to really get submersed into a good conversation.”
It’s taken a while, but Willeboordse says he is getting more comfortable in the whole process of it. “To be able to get past my insecurities of hearing my own voice, and putting myself out there. I’m feeling more at ease in conversations with other people. I’ve grown a lot and become aware of a lot of things that I do myself—whether it be the way I say things or articulate a thought, or how I interact with other people, as well as my understanding and opinions of certain topics has changed. And that I think, was part of the whole point of doing something like this, too.”
He says the podcasts that have been the most satisfying are the ones where people have been able to open up and share personal experiences. “An example of that would be Robbie Austin, who talked about when he was attacked by a grizzly bear. I mean, that was a very extreme situation and story that he was able to open up and share with everybody else. That isn’t easy. I mean, there’s been a few of them, like Doug Peterson, who’s been a local for quite some time, but not everyone knows he was into football, or Trevor Bolin, who really has been a staple in the Fort St. John area. I think a lot of people only know him as a realtor, or city councillor, but have no idea of his story and the struggles and the obstacles he has had to overcome to get to the success he’s had now. And all of these have one thing in common: the personal story that they’re telling. A story that is unique to them, that nobody really gets a chance to hear any other way, except for a long conversation in an environment that allows them to be able to open up enough and be vulnerable enough to share that story. And that’s the part that I really get a lot of satisfaction from: being able to get to know these people on a deeper level than just the facade that a lot of people see.”
Willeboordse says that the hardest topics he has faced have been Covid—which he finds very polarizing—and First Nations and Reconciliation. “That’s an extremely sensitive subject that a lot of people seem to shy away from,” he says. “I’m still working on that. I’m hoping to be able to touch base on it in a healthy way, in the future. It’s probably a good thing that I’m taking my time with it to develop the skill to tackle it in a healthy form.”
Of course, not every conversation deals with weighty issues, and he has had a number of lighthearted conversations. “I’ve had a number of comedians on, or Episode 10, where I brought in a couple of work buddies. I think lighthearted is also needed, too, and not have it be so serious all the time.”
Moving forward, he’d like to expand the scope of the podcast. To promote the podcast so people in the region know about it, as well as to be able to broach some of those sensitive subjects. “Hopefully people—especially the ones who have been apprehensive—find it interesting enough to feel more comfortable and want to come on, instead of it being an unknown where people are concerned that they don’t want to put themselves in a position that can have negative backlash.”
He’s also hoping to bring on multiple guests with differing perspective on divisive issues to have discussions “I think that’s gonna really be key to bringing awareness and talking about both sides of a story. That is something that I’m working on. Again, it’s just building the foundation to be able to allow people to be able to feel comfortable enough to come on and actually do something like that.”
One of the people Willeboordse would like to have on again is Charles Helm. “He’s got a real passion for the area and the people of Tumbler Ridge, but he’s done a tremendous amount of work in conservation in his own right. He has been able to spearhead a lot of projects, or be part of them at the very least. He was one of the more instrumental people when it came to conservation in the form of the UNESCO geopark. I mean, that is something that a lot of people still aren’t aware of. And it’s become such a passion for himself that he’s getting his education in paleontology. That gives him a very unique outlook on things and his knowledge of that area. I hope to actually talk to him again, in the future because even though we had a fairly long conversation, we only started to scratch the surface on what he really knows about the area.”
Willeboordse says his wife Jodie is a passionate hiker, especially around Tumbler Ridge. “She’s hiked just about every trail that tumbler Ridge has to offer, especially the ones outlined in Charles’ book. And so when he finally came as a guest, she was able to get him to sign the book. It was pretty cool experience. I mean, before the podcast was even an idea, we were exploring Tumbler Ridge, and we used Charles’ books. Fast forward to the podcast, and have him on as a guest to explain a lot of what he had done was kind of neat. It’s one of those things that I would have never been able to experience if I didn’t start the podcast, so it’s putting me in touch with a lot of people that I never would have the opportunity to meeting any other way.
Every conversation changes a person, and all these deep conversations has left Willeboordse softer. “I’ve got a softer opinion about some of the subjects that I was unwilling to move on a year ago. My demeanor is a little bit more of understanding, instead of being harsh. I’ve been able to understand and see more sides of the story than just my perspective. I don’t think that I’ve compromised myself or my priorities or my morals in doing that. In fact, I’d say exactly the opposite. I’ve expanded my perspective and become more of a well-rounded, understanding person, which is something I didn’t expect. When I started I thought, maybe I was going to be able to explain my point of view to people, but the exact opposite has happened, I’ve been able to understand different points of view and change mine in that process without feeling like I’ve compromised anything.
“I think I’m a better person because of it. So it’s it’s kind of neat to do something that makes me want to keep doing what I’m doing.”
You can download Kevin Unscripted from your favourite Podcast App, or listen to it online. You can find episodes on Facebook or wherever you find fine podcasts. The most recent episode features an interview with an independent Tumbler Ridge Newspaper publisher/writer/photographer.
Trent is the publisher of Tumbler RidgeLines.